"If I Don't Fit In In the US, How Will I Fit In Abroad?" Neurodivergence and Moving Abroad

0:00English. Speakers are still a novelty. Here And of course I had two cats who basically destroyed their carriers on days one and three. There was a lot of discussion to make sure that we were aligned and that we were doing it for for similar reasons. What are the? Visa paths. Are you running towards something or are you running away from something? And then what?

0:25I can't believe we're finally here. This is Americans Abroad. Welcome to this week's episode of Americans Abroad. This week we'll have Jeremy Strozer to talk about life in Ireland and moving abroad as neurodivergent. Jen, let's talk a little bit about neurodivergent and adjusting to new life. You and I are both neuro spicy. What challenges did you face when moving to Mexico that you could attribute to go?

0:57Oh yeah, that's probably my weird little brain. Well, the first thing is, you know, we are both Gen. X women and we're so under diagnosed. Yeah. That when I was I had an ex-husband, you know, who was insane, and we went to therapy one time where mostly he complained about the cat. Cool. I was like, hey, this is $220.00 an hour, but I really thought he was autistic and he probably was, but beside the point. So we go into the session and I was like, listen, something is wrong with him.

1:40You got to fix him. Like he doesn't. He's like, I can't communicate with him and all these different things. And I went on and I explained everything, whatever. And she goes, I think you're and I was. Like that's a no. I expected this to go. I was like. What, and I mean genuinely, Stephanie, it had never like I'd taken ADHD meds before and stuff in Business School, but it never ever crossed my mind and and I was like, what?

2:11And she goes here's why. And she like sits there and like recounts every single thing about me. This was a while, this was like 2011. This was not like today when you know, TikTok is banding about diagnosis and stuff. And I just was like, I mean, shocked Pikachu face. And but over time, as I've accepted it and do have, you know, a lot more resources, I'm like, Oh my God. Like when I was in 9th grade, I broke my back. It's a long story, but I had this big giant back brace and I went to the nerd school and I was still. High on.

2:51The. Level of nerd still singled out. And I would shuffle down the hall and I would whistle, There's this song from Bridge on the River, River Y, you know, Yeah, Anyway. And I would whistle that everywhere to the point where like people wrote it in my yearbook, Keep whistling your happy song because again, they were nice and weird people. And now like I was stemming like I was really uncomfortable in this new place where I didn't know anybody. Everybody had gotten there before me, this weird magnet school.

3:24And I show up two months into the the year in this giant honking back brace. And that was my little comfort was I was comforting myself by whistling that song as I walked down the hall. So I so that I had a little soundtrack and it just like it just explains a million different things. But knowing, as who says, is half the battle. And was that GI Joe?

3:50GI Joe. And all of a sudden it then it becomes your superpower. Now listen, there are people who are obviously I'm high functioning, right? But there were times where I was not there, you know, we can talk about it sometime, but there were times where I was, I was not functioning at all. And but now that I accept it and I understand it, you know, I just leaned into my superpower of organization and also took everything I learned and said, oh, clearly I need to tell everyone on earth what I have learned. That is not something that neurotypical people do. Or compelled to do?

4:40Absolutely not here. Here is a 27 slide PowerPoint presentation about this thing that I'm very interested in is a is a very yeah, neurodivergent thing to do and so you've built the entire business on they. Go live for 1000 hours and answer the same question about the Stamp Zero visa over and over again. That's not what what neurotypical people do. No, but you know, you're right about the superpower. And especially when we're navigating something where we have to be super organized.

5:12I mean, I joke all the time. I'm like, I love a spreadsheet, but Ding Dong if that's not the truth. So when we were getting everything together for our Portugal appointment to get our initial extended temporary visa, the joy that I had of numbers and figures and documents and copies. And when I needed to make a copy and like highlighting it from red to green, it brought a little bit of joy to a thing that I also recognized that I had no control over. And that's part of where I start to to stumble is I I don't like big change.

5:53I can adapt to change. I can be agile if I understand why a change is happening. But change for the sake of change or unexplained change throws me for a loop. If you ask my partner, he'll tell you if we ever make a dinner reservation somewhere and somebody goes, oh, I asked my friend if she could come, could we extend it to one more person?

6:14Do not ask Stephanie because Stephanie would have a meltdown. And then just be like, well, we're not going to eat there anymore. And it's just the end of the world because it's these little, little changes that I have to facilitate. And what if I can't? So it is this, you know, fear of letting folks down. So like having something that I could control was a really nice way to keep me grounded, even though my brain was like, it's out of your control. Someone's going to decide if you're good enough or not good enough, if they like you, if

6:41they don't like you. And I think with that also comes a little bit of the fear because I'm so used to having to mask. And since getting diagnosed a little over a year ago going, well, I'm not going to mask anymore. I don't. I don't need to care if people like me. I don't. I don't need to care if I communicate in the way that feels alien to me, but just so that way I can get invited to a table that I don't even want to sit at anyway.

7:10But now I felt like I had. God, we can have a whole. Thing on this like I don't even like these people. Why am I trying to impress them? But I I started to recognize a little bit of that masking happening again of like how do I need to go into this appointment and you know, go I am I am this person who has it all together. Please say that we can move to Portugal. So there was a little bit of that conflict of what can I control?

7:37How do I approach it and how do I just relax into the situation? You were talking about masking. Did you ever have a day job in an office? Yes, absolutely the worst. Absolutely the worst. The pandemic, I said no, listen, I'm sure that a lot of our listeners are women. So I will just say this. I have not worn a bra since March 13th of 2020 outside of like very specific special like a bra to wearing a bra to me is masking.

8:11I hate it, it's uncomfortable, it makes me mad the whole time contacts were masking. Like, I don't like things touching me in certain ways, you know, I don't like. There are a lot of things I don't like when it comes to sensations, but I used to deal with all of them, right? Plus just the whole aspect of masking your personality, whatever. Which of course, I had no idea what I was doing because I didn't understand this was a thing. And I would come home and I would just collapse for hours before I could.

8:41Talk. And that really affects your ability to eat and sleep and all these things. And so working remote, that alone was a miracle for me. You know, I freelance at different times in my life and I'd had businesses and that helps because you know, when it's your business, it's like, take it or leave it. You get what you get. But I've had, you know, decades of office, office work. And once the pandemic happened, I was like, I'm never, I'm never going back.

9:18I am never having to hold my face in a certain way for hours on end. It is, yeah. And. I I like that about. Yeah, the other thing about moving abroad is you're even people who are super normy and follow the rules, all the constructs, you don't know the constructs in the new place. So you're going to come across weird.

9:48Even if you are in where I come from, you know, I'm from Alabama. A normy woman would She would be wearing white jeans, wedge sandals, A flowy Top Chef, blonde hair in those Mormon curls, you know well that's not what they wear in Porto or so you would be weird even. No matter. What? All of your perfect everything. So me with not my perfect everything, it's like a free pass.

10:22I'm going to be weird anyway, so I actually appreciate that a lot. Yeah, that's, that's one of the things that I've struggled with, you know, masking beyond or be or just beyond masking, you know, wanting, wanting necessarily to fit in. I'm not necessarily worried about like, do they like me? Do they not like me? But of just being perceived as not being rude.

10:47Because part of my neurodivergence is I often have hard time making eye contact. And some people can take that as like, oh, you can't look me in the eye. And it's like, no, because it's like I lose my thoughts. I lose just everything. And so the need not necessarily to be like, but the need to not be an ugly American.

11:07And so there were where I would where I would, you know, I would Chat GPTII need. I want to ask my neighbor this thing. How do I phrase it in a way that makes me come across as like almost overly polite because I'm so concerned with coming across as disconnected or disingenuous just because of, you know, what my face just wants to do.

11:35And that's been and that's been a little hard. And I actually talked to our our guest today, Jeremy, a little bit about that of like minor divergent challenge was not just fitting in, but the acceptance part of it. Because man, if I had a hard time getting accepted in the US, how do I get accepted in a foreign country where I don't speak the language? Well, it must have worked because your neighbors brought you an Easter basket this weekend, which I thought was the sweetest thing ever.

11:57Yeah, no, that definitely was the most wonderful sign of acceptance and couldn't be more grateful. This week on Americans Abroad, we have the great pleasure of having our friend Jeremy Strozer. Jeremy was one of our very first experts on Expatsi and he advises people on moving to Ireland, moving abroad while neurodivergent. And he's also one of our move abroad coaches. So he meets with every with people every month to help coach them along their process.

12:34Jeremy, thanks so much for being here. Great to be here, thanks for having me. So how did you decide to move abroad and where did you live in the US? Where are you from originally? I'm originally from Southern California, but I went to the DC area for university and was there for way too long, over 25 years. And I had the opportunity to work for the US government abroad for a period of time.

12:57So I traveled extensively. And so when I got married, one of the first agreements that my wife and I had is we're going to leave this country at some point. We just got to figure out how. It took us another 15 years to figure out how. But at one point I got the opportunity with the company I was working for that wanted to cheat on their taxes. And so by sending me to Ireland, they could get a big tax break with any intellectual property created under the teams that I managed.

13:22And so they moved me to Ireland, that was a process. And then once they got their tax break they let me go and I have been free in Ireland ever since and happily just living my life here and enjoying the fact that they moved me here so. Amazing. So who moved with you and how did everybody adjust to life in Ireland?

13:43So it was myself, my wife and my two kids who at the time were 6:00 and 9:00 and we are still adjusting to life in Ireland. To be honest, it is a lifetime adjustment because particularly for my wife and I, we have over 40 years each of living in the United States, being raised there, understanding the way it works, particularly the systems that we were trained and raised on. And for my son, he has this basically seven years of cognizance of the United States.

14:14And so he always sort of looks back with these golden goggles of, oh, everything was better there. And I'm like, you were a kid like that. That was your perspective. And and it is his perspective and it's absolutely legit, not necessarily always reality. And my daughter was really young, she was sick. So she had a couple of years of cognizance there.

14:35And so all of us have adjusted to Ireland in different ways. I would say we have all sort of found a niche for ourselves and an acceptance of where we are, but it has not been an ideal of, hey, we are thriving here and this is the best place in the world we could ever be. Now, I can't necessarily imagine a place that's ideally better for us in this moment, but that doesn't mean that there isn't at some point in the future.

15:04And how long have you and your family been in Ireland? We arrived in October of 2020, so it's been 5 1/2 years, and we were the only people on the flight because it was the middle of COVID and everything was locked down. So there were four people on that plane that was us. And we arrived and the entire country was locked down and we basically had to go hide in a apartment for two weeks to what was it called sequester ourselves or whatever it is.

15:33And that was the a great intro to Ireland is to basically be told you can't do anything now go away. That, yeah, that's incredible. A lot of people come to came to Mexico because they felt like they were in places like Europe and Canada and they wanted to come to a place where it was not as locked down and whatever else.

15:54Whereas for us as Americans, we came because it was more locked down. Exactly. So it's just like all matter of perspective. So did you become a permanent resident through that process with your company? How do you live there now? Do you work? Yes, I did. Yeah. So I came on what was called a critical skills visa. So it's a two year program where you're with a company that sponsors you for it and you have some kind of critical skills. Mine was management.

16:21So nothing really that outstanding. And I came over and basically satisfied that two years now I told you my company had let me go. I had to. After about six months, my company was letting me go. I had to find a new company to sponsor a new critical skills visa while here. Luckily I found a large pharmaceutical company that wanted me, and I got them to sponsor a critical skills visa.

16:46But for a period of time, I was really afraid we were gonna get kicked back out of the country again because I no longer had the job that connected me to the ability to stay. Luckily I did. I went through the two years, and after the two years and I applied for residency and I got it. And so then we were able to stay, not tied to my job, and I was able to retire.

17:07At that point, I started an improv company. I started a theater where I live, and I started working in the space of applied improv, where I used the lessons of improvisational acting to help organizations, individuals, families try to improve their communication skills, their ability to be agile in the world, and sort of thrive in any future in which we find ourselves.

17:30Amazing. So I want to touch on that background and improv a little bit. What improv techniques have you used to help you and your family adapt to living abroad? How do you Yes and your life? Oh, I am using it everyday. Yes, Andy, everything. So a lot of it listening. So even though we use the same language in Ireland, the meanings are often different.

18:00So I would start with that is what are they actually saying to me? What is the message they're conveying because what I'm hearing might not be what they actually mean. And so that's the first one is trying to get what are you, what are you offering me? The second one is empathy, trying to sense from people, how do you feel about this? Whether it's my family and our experiences, whether it's others that with whom I'm interacting, it's what are the feelings that are coming across?

18:27And how do I approach those feelings in a way that supports that individual, makes them look good, makes them feel good. And and that's an improv principle is basically how the other person shine. And so that's a key thing that I'm working on. Another one that I do is simply acceptance. This is the reality of the situation. I can't fight this.

18:51I won't fight this. If I do fight this, it just makes my life hard. So when I'm dealing with bureaucracy or lack of customer service or the fact that Aer Lingus today cancelled my flight and rebooked me on a flight that's in Dublin instead of Shannon and thinking that was OK, you know, stuff like that. And I'm just like, OK, I could either get really angry or I could simply deal with the situation at hand. And so there's an acceptance there. And then there's an agility that goes with that is since I accept it, how do I then mold myself to

19:22be able to deal with that? How can I be agile in this space? And Ireland has required a lot of agility for me because, like I said, when my company laid me off and I had to find a new role, Like, that was a lot of bending when I, you know, started my company and had to figure out how do companies work here and how do taxes work here and, you know, doing all that. So it's constant learning, constant curiosity, constant education and constant, like, what is the situation here? And how do I meld myself to that

19:53rather than trying to force Ireland to meld to me, which is never going to work. You also have a YouTube channel where you use improv techniques in parenting. Have you been able to help your your children and you know, your overall family dynamic adjust to life through improv? Talk to me a little bit about that because we do have a lot of listeners with with kids or family members who may not be quite as on board. Definitely, yeah.

20:22So I have two neurodivergent kids and I'm neurodivergent myself. And I have found that any approach that is me telling them what to do and saying, well, this is just what needs to be done is a recipe for disaster. And whether that's to, you know, hey, we're going to go take a tour of Galway or, you know, I just need to go to sleep tonight.

20:41Everything I have found comes from gamification, from just listening to them and their needs and understanding where they're coming from. And almost all the time, any behavior comes from somebody trying to figure something out, trying to make something work, and not knowing the way I would do it, but doing it in a way that makes sense to them.

21:07And so if I can understand the root cause of this thing, if I can understand its context, then chances are I can get to where they are and then help them get to where we need to go. And so that is been a lot of my time in Ireland and a lot of time with my family is taking a step back from I'm the important one, but trying to figure out how do I make you shine?

21:30How do I make this situation OK for you? Because I'm the adult and I'll be fine. And how do I then enable you to do the thing that we're trying to do? And if I could help them with that and help them see how to do that, then when they're older and they launch, they can go into the world and can do that for themselves. And that's related to Ireland in terms of we homeschool. And so getting into communities of other homeschoolers, meeting other kids in their age group by doing social activities, going to activities like Taekwondo

22:07that both of them do now and they both love because the physicality of that and the, the impact and the, the contacts that that gives them. And so all of those things have been through dialogue, through interaction, through play to enable the opening to want to participate in that stuff. And so that, you know, whether we are in Ireland or the US or anywhere, like it's just been an approach of how do I help you be who you want to be wherever we are.

22:39I love that. I wish you'd come do that for me and Brett. We need classes and that for couples with our combined neurodivergence in very different ways. So. You know, we get a lot of questions from people who who will say I want to move abroad, but I have autism so I'm not allowed to. And they, and a lot of people really think that, you know, there's this pervasive thought.

23:01And I think it's because there are these, you know, there are rules in New Zealand and Australia and Canada or whatever. Have you heard that? I've met with many neurodivergent people through Expatsi and then in my own conversations on the side when I'm just out and about. And I haven't heard anybody specifically say that, but I have heard a lot of concern about how do I do this when I'm dealing with this approach to the world that I have. And usually it's, it can be done. Let me help you figure that out

23:41based on your approach. And so a lot of it is trying to understand who they are, how they work, how their brain works and how they interact with others, and then assisting people in the process in the way that would be most effective for them. And so anybody can move abroad now obviously with Australia, New Zealand and Canada, I mean they, they have some restrictions I guess that are a little less friendly. But I have not seen anything in in Europe that would stop people from coming to the countries here. And I would suggest that as well. You know, with more education

24:21and more interaction, maybe those countries might realize actually they could have an asset if they bring in their emerging people rather than any kind of deficit. So there there's a positive attribute that I think, you know, may or may not actually become a thing for countries to realize, but on the individual level, we can make it work.

24:43And that's my job is to help make that work for that person. And I love doing that because the more people I meet, the more stories I get and the more understanding I get of how the humanity thing works. And you know, we're all pretty awesome. So if I could help you be awesome in the place you want to be, that's glorious.

25:01I love that we're my people are Swiss German and I saw that there's a book called German or Autistic and I'm going to get it for my cousin. So, you know, I think we would I think we would fit in well back in the in the motherland. What are there any specific challenges and how is care there? How is treatment for people who are neurodivergent? In Ireland there is a very large neurodivergent community and there is a broad recognition of the the needs of this community. I would suggest that Ireland is fairly progressive in the recognition and identity space.

25:46It's trying to move into the how do we enable space? But I don't think it's yet moved into the Oh yeah, sure, fine. You know, we're all part of this thing and you know, no big deal area, but I wouldn't suggest that any country really has, although the UK is farthest advanced in that in terms of care is like for education purposes, because that's usually a big thing that people ask about is that there are a lot of supports that are provided in schools.

26:19There are also targeted schools for neurodivergent community, particularly autistic people if they want to go to those specific schools. And then beyond that, and one of the things we really like about Ireland is home schooling is in the constitution as a right. And so that is highly supported and the process to home school is not very difficult.

26:45And so you have your choices. You could go to a public school, we could go to a private school or you could home school. And in any of those you can get accommodations, assistance, whatever. And then one of the other things that is really helpful in Ireland is upon citizenship and so we don't participate in this yet.

27:06You can apply for a disabled child credit and assistance for that. So they will give you money for caring for your child. And if you are a family carer, which is usually a parent caring for a child and autism or other neurodivergence qualify in terms of the space, then they will give you a modest subsidy to be a parent caring for this child.

27:34And so that is a really nice thing, particularly if you don't have a large income that you don't have to go out and work. Now, you're not going to be living a, you know, living in a high, but you can buy food, you can get pay rent, you know, you can have a modest lifestyle. And that is something that I really respect and appreciate that I did not see in the United States. And so, and that does exist in many countries throughout Europe is, you know, family carers benefits for people who are taking care of their family and

28:08can't go out and also work during the day at the same time. Yeah. And it it's so important, you know, especially to a lot of our audience. And you did a webinar on neurodivergence and it was one of the more popular ones that we've had in terms of attendance. It, it is that, you know, how do I make sure that my child is supported?

28:27How do I make sure that, that we have options? And so I'm, I'm glad you've been able to define those options for your family. I want to switch gears just a little bit. You know, friends and family notwithstanding, do you miss anything about the United States? Mexican food. So that's the number one thing. Famously, everybody says. Every, everybody. Everybody.

28:53Everybody. Oh, we try so hard. You know, actually, the best Mexican food I had was in Prague since we've been in Europe, which surprised us, but it was delightful. But yeah, so beyond that is what do we miss about the US? One thing I'll say is that I'm often dealing with a attitude that is not, how do we solve this? It's usually a, this is how it is. And the thing I miss most, and I don't know that I got this as much in the US as I just pushed it, is a we could figure this out if we work together

29:35approach. And I don't get that as often here, particularly when I'm dealing with bureaucracy, with companies, with any organization that has any kind of like renewable policy or this is just how it's done. There's a lot more, this is how it's done then I feel like I used to experience and I struggle with that concept. I've struggled with that concept in all of my jobs in the past, but I I struggle with that concept when interacting with people because they're like, well, just because it's how it was done doesn't mean it's how it needs to be done or should be

30:10done or can be done. And if we work together, I thought we could figure out a better way to do it. And not everybody's open to that. So yeah, I could see that it's two sides of the same coin. It's like whatever that that culture is that maintains all these beautiful buildings and all these beautiful traditions also stops new ideas. And in the US, it's the opposite. Like nothing like we have no, we, we nothing is sacred. Any building can be torn down, whatever. And that's a loss too, because and we, we struggle to build culture.

30:51You know, we absorb other people's of course, and it's an interesting dichotomy to me. I like a little balance maybe would be nice it. Would be lovely. Exactly. Yes, like if we could maintain this, but like compromise a little over here, then, you know, we work together. It's not like Ireland, you know, Ireland's more capitalist than the US is.

31:14Yeah. On the scale, it's like Singapore, Hong Kong, Ireland, some others and then the US. Yeah, it is a very dynamic place, and particularly the young people here are just like, I'm going to do something. I'm like, awesome. That's awesome. OK. So are there any last things that people should know about moving to Ireland? Thinking about moving to Ireland that that you wish you had known before you got there. Oh wow, so a lot of people talk about the weather and I think they under represent how stark the weather is. So just knowing that about

31:55Ireland is it will be dark, it will be rainy, it will be wet. You will grow Moss on your car, Moss will be growing on your roof, Moss will be growing everywhere, even on your body. So just accept that that is the environment in which you exist now. If you can do that, then you're you're golden. Although it's a dark shade so you won't see it so well, there are sunny days on occasion and summer that is the best two weeks of the year.

32:22And so just enjoy those as much as you possibly can. Beyond that, I would say that the other best thing to know is, and I mentioned this before, even though we're speaking the same language, there's very different meaning in the words being used and in what those words mean in the way they're being provided. And so be prepared for somebody being very nice to you who actually doesn't care for you at all. And, and they are extremely welcoming. They're extremely nice.

32:55They're extremely gracious. They might not like you and just accept that that might be the case because it's harder to make friends here than I realized it would be. And that's been something for myself, my wife, my kids, and most of the friends we've made are other expats who have moved to Ireland, not Americans necessarily, but other Europeans who have come here. So we're all blow insurance and we sort of make friends with each other, but the locals really don't like us. And we, we accept that.

33:32And we sort of like, OK, that's fine. We'll, we'll deal with that. But that was a surprise for us. I listen, I would. We could do a whole episode on that. I love your perspective on that. I know it's important for all of us to be able to make friends. In a lot of these countries, it is easier to make friends.

33:54But at the end of the day, developing a thick skin like you have is super important, I think, for people who are moving places. Jeremy, thank you so much for being here today. If anyone wants to meet with Jeremy to talk about how to move to Ireland or how to move abroad with neurodivergence or wants to have him as their move abroad coach to cheer them along every step of the way, you can do that at expatsi.com/experts and look for Jeremy and we'll put those links in the show notes. Jeremy, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me, it was

34:32great. Jen, do you know what time it is? Should I stay or should I go now? Should I stay or should I go now? Waiting for that cease and desist. Letter cease and desist letter. Yeah, we're going to say this is for use. If we could do commentary about the Clash, then we can technically use that song. Well, let's get right into it.

35:05So we had a listener write in and they say that their biggest hold up for them and their family to move abroad is income. They say it's so hard to find global, global work or global slash work from anywhere jobs or build a business that can fully create a financial safety net to move. So the question is, how do I create income paths to move abroad? I know this is a big topic and we could spend an hour on this, but what initial advice would you give to this listener? I mean this is the whole ball

35:37game, right? Like at the end of the day, This is why we have 6 stages of moving abroad. Most often people are like I want to move to Ireland and they don't think through all these steps. Not Jeremy, you know he got sent there. But but this is the whole stage 2 planning piece of it is how am I going to get there and support myself abroad.

35:59There is no exception aside from, you know, family ties where you have citizenship by ancestry or something. But there is no exception that every single visa path includes your livelihood if you're not a refugee or a citizen. So it's really important. And the, the, this is where everyone starts who isn't retired or already working for themselves or already has a work from anywhere job.

36:28Everyone has to go through it. The one thing that I would want you to keep in mind is that you do not have to replace your American salary and benefits to live well abroad. So, for example, you know, before Brett and I moved to Mexico, I was head of marketing at a software firm. Brett was a software developer junior level.

36:52But nonetheless, you know, we had good jobs and had our highest salaries of our lives. And but in Mexico we didn't need that level of income and we didn't want that level of stress. So our thought was, OK, what can we do that would earn $3000 a month? If we make $3000 a month, we could live well in Mexico.

37:19And so that became our goal. And so then it we thought, OK, what are 30 things that we could do that each earned $100 and we broke it into pieces as we set up our business. Now that works when you're talking about starting a business, the main thing is there are three paths. 1 is to get a job locally in another country.

37:46Most often that's going to be a good path for you if you are in tech, in healthcare, in a construction trade or potentially fields like logistics. You know, Jeremy said he was in management, but to be honest it probably helped that he was already in country and that made it probably a little bit easier. But so if you're in one of those fields, potentially you would look at a local job, a work from anywhere job works well if you have a relationship with your company that they are going to let you move abroad.

38:23The idea that there are countless jobs for people who and companies who that don't care where they live, that's just false. And it's a great opportunity for people to scam you into subscriptions to things. Yes, it makes sense for companies to have employees around the world that that they could payless, but currently they don't. It's a future goal of Expatsi is to work with companies on allowing more of their employees to work abroad. But you know, we aren't there yet. So they're just are not countless firms doing that. But if you work at a place where

39:01you provide a lot of value and you get along well with your hiring manager or your boss or the owner or whatever, then most often they don't want to lose you and you can start to craft a very personalized path abroad. That might be that they let you work abroad. It might be that you go contract and become a 1099 employee, or it might be that you work for what's called an employer of record.

39:24And so that company hires you in France or wherever and then they sort of lease you back out to your employer and they handle taxes and paperwork and so on. But companies do have to deal with taxes and paperwork and stuff if they have offshore employees. And so they aren't keen to run and, and do that. The other thing is you can work for a big multinational firm and try to get sort of stations set abroad, but these are these were a long strategies.

39:55The reason why I choose starting my own business is because it gave me control over that strategy, right? You know, back to Speaking of this, episodes about neurodivergence, and I'll be perfectly honest, I don't succeed in corporate environments. I have a million dramatic sad stories about being passed over and my ideas getting shafted and whatever. And the truth is, it's not their fault.

40:23I'm it just I'm not the system. I'm not right for the system. So the odds of me, I know yourself, I knew that the odds of me finding a situation where I could rise, you know, I'm really educated, I'm really experienced, but I just struggle to find corporate roles that my peers do. And so the odds of me finding an opportunity like that were slim.

40:46But I have a ton of grit and entrepreneurial spirit. So know yourself. If you do well in a corporate environment, then make it work for you. If you're entrepreneurial, make that work for you. As a matter of fact, we have a new opportunity. It's at expatsi.com/affiliate where you can have your whole remote income be telling other people how to move abroad.

41:13So part of our goal with Expatsi is that we can help other people move abroad with work, work from anywhere income that they generate by helping other people. But so that's basically the gist is are you highly skilled in a commodified field? Are you, do you have a great relationship with an American employer? Who would, who would help you out or who would transfer you?

41:39Or are you entrepreneurial? Pick two of those paths and pursue 2 of them at a time, but when one starts to become the clear option, throw the other one away and don't pursue all three. If you want to work through this more, I do a move abroad action workshop every Sunday. Except you know, unless we have other events going on, but I do it every Sunday for our members. Or you can pay to come and we walk through our job hunt strategies, business starting strategies, all that sort of thing.

42:15And you can find that at expatsi.com/events. Jen, thanks so much for answering this question. My pleasure, Americans abroad is. An Expatsi production. Please like, share, subscribe and leave a review. Are you thinking about moving? Abroad. Start with our quiz at expatsi.com. That's expatsi.com.